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Is This Really Bad Advice?
June 19th, 2009 
Genius I like to think of myself as an honest, giving person. But then we probably all do.
And as the research shows more than 60% of all drivers think their driving skills are above average.
Ever since I started optiongenius.com, 99% of the emails and comments have been favorable. Even the people who become members and drop out, tell me it is because it is something on their end and not because of the service.
But then again, there are those that do not believe me or question my motives. Which is fine. In fact, I say people should not believe me when they sign up for my site. Heck, I wouldn’t believe it if someone told me they could make 100% a year with low risk – until I saw it for myself.
That’s why I offer the first 30 days of membership for just $1. I think that is a fair price to see what the site is about and to see for yourself if it is worth it or not.
Plus if you think the site sucks and I am full of it, I’ll give you your $1 back. What else can I do?
On top of that, my service has the lowest monthly fee of any of the other option newsletters I have come across. Several of my members tell me they have been members of other services in the past and were paying a whole lot more than what I charge – some charge 4 times more than I charge.
So then when I got the following email I was confused as how I should respond.
I’ve been pondering your emails and subsequent service. Needless to say, I’m skeptical and not in a position to be throwing away $50/mo month after month, although I’d be more than willing to pay that fee if I had an opportunity to overcome my skepticism and, more often than not, I came out ahead and, thus, the return would pay the fee and STILL subsidize my income.
What, if anything, can you do to help me?
Here was my response:
I thought about your email and I dont think there is much I can do for you. If you are not willing or cannot afford to spend $50 a month on your own education, then you should not be managing your own money.
Take Warren Buffet’s advice: put your money in an index fund and do what you do best.
Maybe I should have put it in different words, but I think I said what I meant. Here was her response:
Really bad advice… and, taking into account that emails can come across in a different way than intended, I’d still say that this comes across as very condescending and negative.
Although the information I gave you is absolutely true, I was more wanting to see what kind of person YOU are before entrusting my “education” (in essence, being willing to “follow” you and learn along the way) to you. See, I’m a particular kind of person, Allen, and I conduct myself and ALL of my business ventures in a given manner — openly, honestly, and with the utmost integrity. I’m not just looking to capitalize on an education or God-given talent by asking people (who, by the way, don’t even know me from “Adam” — or “Eve”, as the case may be) to trust ME… in exchange for their money every month.
Needless to say, I was somewhat captivated by your site and what appeared to be your interest in truly helping others (so be it if you made some money from it; that’s a small price to pay if you can come out ahead in the long-run). Unfortunately, a short, curt, unempathetic response — regardless how much or how little you may know (again, it’s only your word) — isn’t really the best strategy. I could certainly give you some words of wisdom in this area (gained from MY expertise). That, too, however, would be negative and nasty — and I prefer to rise above that.
Oh, and I WILL do what I do best!
I did not respond.
So is this a case of someone looking for something for nothing, or did I take here intial request the wrong way? I don’t know. What I do know is that there are plenty of others out there willing to take every penny you have to “educate” you in options or to help you get rich with their “research” and “picks”.
I guess there is no point to this post. I just wanted to get it off my chest. She asks, “what can you do for me?”
Hello? Show me someone else you can show you how to make 10% a month returns. Heck, I’ve been to $10,000 seminars where all they did was sell you more stuff and I was glad to go.
When you go to college, what do you spend? $100,ooo? More? And are you taught how to be financially independent? NO! Are you taught proper money management? NO! Are you taught real world skills that an make you a solid income from home with limited capital and low risk? NO!
Even if you take finance courses, you are taught that the market is efficient so you shouldn’t bother trying to get above average returns! And that’s after paying $100,000. All I am asking is $1.
Is that too much to ask?
Allen,
You’re doing a great job. I have traded for you for one month, and have learned much already. Please keep up what you are doing as I am sure a lot of people are or will benefit from it. In the future, as I become more profitable from following your trades, I hope to be able to donate more to your favorite charity.
Cheers,
Jesse
Allen,
Do you have long-term plans regarding this website? 1 year, 3 years, 5 years. Also when did you begin the website?
Thanks,
Arthur
Arthur,
I started this site in the end of February of this year, 2009. But I had been emailing my picks to friends and family for a while before that. I do not remember exactly when that started.
Long term, I would like the site to grow into a community of traders. Maybe others can submit their ideas and trades and we can profit together. i can see myself doing this for 3-4 more years at least. By that time, I hope to have someone trained that can do my trades for me so i can devote 100% of my time to charitable causes. I want to start my own foundation one day.
Jesse,
Thanks for the wonderful comment!
I feel I have a great responsibility to my members not to lose money. If I lose my own money, I can handle it. But if I lose someone else’s money, I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night. That is one of the reasons I do not manage money for strangers.
Even with this service members can decide which trades they want to do and how much to risk. I do my best to make sure every trade is a winner, but it is up to the members to choose how much to invest/risk on each trade. I cringe every time I get an email from a new member that uses real money to do the first trade they see my post. I urge everyone to papertrade first. Get to know how I trade and how the trades work before risking your hard earned money.
I am very skeptical of all investment advisors. So should you. See if I can back up my claims with real performance. Then use real money.
Happy Trading
Allen, I used to subscribe to Hurbert financial digest,, They track 180 newsletters and over 500 model portfollios.. nobody is getting 10% per month net in the bank returns on their trading portfollio.. I make many trades a month and get 100%-300% several times a year on certian trades.. 30-50% very offten. I could even tout 2-4 month streaks that real killer but at the end of the year, year after year 20% a year would be amazing , let ..your 120% a year would be earth shattering and peoplel would pay $5000 a year for the service.. All I ever see from newsletter sites is quotes from new people or people just out of the training .. who had a good month or thought the plan was great and plan to make a ton.. I would like to see something like.. Thanks Newsletter man.. I have been with you for over 2 years and am now retired and make more with your system than when I was working since I joined up with you I average 10% per month ROI. Looks like this will be a long great ride..
I realize you have only been doing this for a year so maybe a few… I have been with you from the begining testimonials and my account is up 90%. Maybe have Hurbert tract your trades ,,cause at 10% per month proven net returns on a total portfollio would make you the best. I think this was more what the lady with attiduse was after..a little proof a total portfollio documanted actually traded in the market results over a period of time.. not rest backtested,, not assumming a get in the trade and out at the highest point of thetrade ,,but actual in the market in and out track record of every trade showing a 120% 12 month return.. that would be swell
I agree getting 10% a month is amazing. I have been able to do it and that’s why I mention it on the site. Do I aim for 10% a month? I used to, but since the crazy markets of late 2008 and 2009 I have adjusted my mentality. Now if i get 5% a month I will be happy. 5% is my new goal for the month. And in 2010, i don’t think I will have any problem hitting it. I have had people approach me with several million dollars to manage their money. I turned them down because i dont need the aggravation of getting licensed and having to answer to these people all the time. But in the future, managing money could be in the cards.
I have considered using a tracking service and have been appraoched by some. But I dont like the fact that they charge people to see my results. They are just using info given to them for free and charging people to view it. I have not been impressed with the methodolgy they use in actually “verifying” the results. I have not heard of Hurbert so i cannot say the same for them.
In addition, I have had many people ask me if my returns are based on the high point of the trade. Who does that? That sounds like a scam. Sure if 1999 if I count the high point of my trades i would be a multi-millionire. But that’s not real life. No, my returns are based on the prices I got filled on when I got in and the price i got filled at when I got out.
Did you know the FTC passed a new law about testimonials? No longer are advertisers allowed to present testimonials that show rare or abaove average results. Now all marketers should only show testimonials that display what an “average” person using the product would experience. So even if I had someone who said they retired using my trades, i could not post that testimonial since it is not “average” and will never be because most users do not follow 100% to the letter. Some members dont trade at all, they are just learning. Some members pick and choose what trdes they want to be in. And that is fine. It’s your money, use it how you want.
Another point is that I don’t ask for testimonials. The ones on the site are those given to me withour asking. Mainly through emails. Now that i think about it, I should be asking for them and will probably implement something soon.
If someone does not belive my results that is fine with me – you can’t make everyone happy. But if you want, the past trades for several months are listed on the site.
Allen you give great trades…I use them and I have been impressed!
Thanks!
Dan
Allen,
Take a deep breath and keep on truckin. Options trading is not for everyone nor is managing money. Don’t slice your wrists yet, we have along way to go.
In the personal financial world many choices exist for those who manage their portfolios actively or passively. For the active participant, involvement through education and practice is paramount. The passive trader can manage risk more affectively by placing their capital into index funds or place their hard earned cash with a portfolio manager.
I have been a member just a few short months and embraced your approach to options trading with full confidence. My experience with options started over 20 years ago and fortunately produced handsome returns. In contrast to the technical trading I have employed, your approach and returns are worth the investment from the education side alone. And yes, my portfolio is up with your trades.
It is important to note that paper trading is available and should be used to verify interest in your trades. Additionally, subscribers should also realize that picking and choosing only some posted trades will not produce the expected returns.
I believe your approach is the right track and you should stay the course. The small price of $50 will not meet my beer budget. Therefore, the bucks are better spent following your trades.
The writer conveys a sense of frustration over the inability to locate a program that fulfills dreams without consequence to personal capital or obligation to learn. My suggestion to her is “punt!” Turn the dough over to an investment vehicle that will make promises with 8×10 color graphs and fabricated data. Then, take a language arts class and improve her writing skills. The letter gives me a sense that you two were previously married. Or, my forth grader was the author.
Just my two cents.
Regards,
Gene
I tried your service for a month, and the first two trades I put on I lost $2800 hundred dollars. It seems in my times using diffferent services over the net I have lost each time. I lost over $55,000 dollars with Gorilla trades, our of Florida, lost my 401k with schafffers options. Now I know its up to us to do due diligence, but sometimes I feel like I am in your city in a crap game. You can’t beat the system.
I don’t know what this girl’s motive was for sending this nasty email. It sounds like she wants something for nothing(like most Americans). Heck, I’m not even a member yet, but I think optiongenius is one of the best sites out there and probably the most reasonably priced for what it offers. I’ve learned a lot just from reading the free blogs. Once I’ve saved up enough I plan on being a member. But in the meantime I plan on learning from Allen’s emails and blog posts.
Duane,
I am sorry for your loss. In trading things can go wrong. But over time, my strategies work and they have proved themselves over the years. No matter what you invest in, look at it as a long term proposition. There are many ways to make money in the markets. You have to find what works for you and not follow blindly.
If you had read any of the materials on the site, i say over and over that the first few months should be spent papertrading my trades so you get a feel for them and understand how they work. Traders need to control their emotions and be logical about trading. It’s kinda like swimming. If you dont know how you dont jump into the deep end.
It may be just bad luck, but the month you joined was my worst month ever.
Hey Allen, You can’t please all of the people all of the
time. I am like you that i take too much to heart when
a person was not going to be swayed or educated by anyone at any price ( by the way my fee is a bit more…
is that because of when I joined? ) you help the ones that want to be helped and let the others find their own way. Michael
It’s a numbers game. You don’t know any of us and we don’t know you. From my point of view, I’d rather you didn’t obsess on that ewail. You don’t know what is going on in that person’s life. You cannot solve it. That is the male baggage. Males want to solve things. Women prefer nurturing. Considering what I have spent on training and software, this is so trivial it makes me laugh. The end result is what counts. You get paid for taking risk. If someone thinks that A PARTICULAR SYSTEM or SERVICE is going to make them money, they are wrong. It is the learning process. You have to learn to fish.
Russ
I’ve spent my whole life both professionally and personally trying to avoid female anal retentive personalities like the one I just saw revealed in that email. Yea, I know, I must be mysogenic and before all the Steinem’s of the world fire up their word processors – forget it at 63 I’m not interested.
I have been eying the site for some time as it has made my short list. I am happily subscribed to like services and the $50 a month is of such little consequence in that I value multiple inputs as diversification’s averagiing is a huge factor in one’s overall success.
There is always a “personality” that arises out of these “one man sites” and the fact that you would even post that over the top response has done much for me to get to know that “personality”.
Funny how she says she doesn’t want to come across as “negative or nasty” but the last paragraph is literally dripping with “negative and nasty” not matter how “professional” she claims to be while talking down like Judge Judy (who perfected the art of demeaning and condescending while “professional”).
This isn’t some fancy restaurant where righteous indignation gets you a free entrée.
She is obviously missing the big picture here. One that as a result of her email and your response I will avail myself of posthaste.
So thanks Allen for taking the time to share that. The advice you gave was sound but I wouldn’t have been so polite and if I seem overly blunt to anyone my advice is “get over it”.
As a subscriber, who took the small risk on your service, I can’t say that I completely agree with her. However, I can really sympathize with what she’s going through, Allen. The internet is a really tricky place. People hide behind their anonymity, and hype is so common that we’ve all become jaded. Face-to-face business is so different from buying online. There are many trading services that are actually far better at marketing than they are at trading. Once you’ve been burned, it’s easy to be skeptical and wary.
If I may continue, this is simply too perfect of an opportunity to pass up. I was laid off from a sales engineering job of five years in December, and I decided that it was time for me to stop being dependent upon an employer for my financial success. I committed myself to becoming a trader. Of course, in so doing, I was flung into the world of buying trading education. These are shark-infested waters. So, I completely understand her dilemma.
Being a techie, a trader, and an out-of-work husband and father with entrepreneurial ambitions, I recognized an opportunity. That’s why I happen to be starting a web site made to assist prospects like her (and the rest of us) to shop for trading mentors and services that are legit and fit our trading style. If you’ll be so kind as to let your readers know about it, I think it would be a service to them. It’s called StudentsOfTraders.com.
BTW, my LinkedIn profile is at http://www.linkedin.com/in/leegrey, in case anyone wonders if I’m legit.
I’ll close by saying that I’m wrapping up my first month with Option Genius, and I think you’re the real deal, as well, Allen. I look forward to many months of your service more than paying for itself.
Allen is surely a very honest person, and OG letter,in general, quite educational.Whether we follow to trade the exact suggestions or not,it depends on the level we understand the risk involved in selling option spread trading,and depends on the expectation we have. If we put $ one million,then we have $ 2 million next year.If it is that easy, go for it.
In my opinion , all suggestions made by this trading letter need to be carefully examined.Otherwise,I will be more likely to lose than to win.
Therefore,paper trade is first.Then,it depends on one’s risk level.I have researched and observed that Allen’s trades can’t be very relaxed,and often highly risky.They need to be adjusted all the times.
So members,lower our expectations.Consistent 8% to 10% a month is a wishful thinking.Then,carefully planning to trade according to his suggestions,3% to 5% average monthly gain using a small percentage of your total money is possible . That will be 36% to 60% a year within a certain percentage ( let’s say 5%-8% ) of your total portfolio.
PS autotrades are not the way to go. Allen can afford to lose 48% a month if market goes bad,and then he simply adds fund in his account.But imagine that a member who just started to trade for less than two years and not well capitalized,he or she simply just closes the account.