Podcast – Episode 016 – Interview With Trader Dale Hefner
Dale Hefner is a 81 year old retired business owner in Amarillo Texas.
He has fun spending time with his wife, going into town, and trading options.
Listen in as he shares how he turned a $4,000 account into $21,000 – a $17,000 gain in just 12 months!
Allen: Okay, so, today I have with me Mr. Dale Hefner. Dale is one of our students for the Blank Check Trading System and he has been very gracious enough to spend some time with me to answer some questions. How you’re doing today, Dale?
Dale: Just fine Allen, you doing fine?
Allen: I’m doing great. I’m doing great.
Dale: [indiscernible] [00:00:26].
Allen: So, I wanted to start off by getting a little background on you, so if you could tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, you know, how long you’ve been trading, what your situation is right now, where you are at, anything that you think would be beneficial.
Dale: Well, I traded in stocks off and on for years. I was a self-employed business owner and I retired back in March of 2015 closed my business and I’ve toyed with options back in ’07 to about ’09 with a gentleman by the name of [indiscernible] [00:01:11] I don’t know if whether you ever knew him. He specialized in gold features and I was in trade with his system as I am with yours on crude oil and, I started, I think it was a very worthwhile program. I think it cost me like $97 back then or something, and he would like you, he would tell when he was making a trade what position he was taking, etcetera and this was buying options though, not selling. And this guy had just,… he had a uniqueness about him. I guess he had traded gold so many years that, he could just really tell, when it was time to, get in the market because, I went probably seven/eight months with him, without a losing tray.
Dale: And then he retired. He wrote all of his students an email one day and let us know he was retiring and moving to South Carolina and I went completely off of my-my plan and I started playing pretty heavy after that, buying gold options and I did pretty well until about mid-year that next year then I took a very big loss and I thought well, I learned my lesson and then I got tied up in my business and I just didn’t have time to go back and study anymore and then I got to, buying some options on futures, cattle futures and things of that nature. Tried that for a while, made some money, loss some money and then, about 2011 I was surfing the web and happened to run onto your, little website and I signed up with you and it’s been nothing, but good fortune ever since.
Allen: So, 2011 that was the Option Genius that you signed up with?
Dale: Yes. I was originally started and I started doing spreads following you on the rut, STX, ETL’s, and during the Iron Condors and the spread. Didn’t do as many Iron Condors as you were doing, but I did do some. And then I went to doing the spreads and I had good luck of spreads, but I had many, many spreads back then and still do and I had been exposed to the oil field industry some years back and I started looking at that and then all the sudden out of the clear blue you, you announced that you were going to start Blank Check Traders and I was elated when you did. I thought, well, this-this is going to be right down my alley and you haven’t let me down or any of your students from the way I can read on the Facebook page.
Allen: Yeah, well we try not to [laughing]. So, do you do this, you’re still working or your full time trading or how long, how many, how long does it take?
Dale: I’m more or less, well, I guess you could call it full-time, I have nothing other than that to do that pays.
Dale: And, I probably make three to four trades a month. I think last year I made a total of 30-31 trades and after I took my losses off of some of the trades I made I think I made it about $17,000.
Allen: Very nice, very nice.
Dale: And, starting this year I’ve been in two trades. I’m in one now. As I told you earlier, on a email I entered some 47 and a half puts last week, the trade before that I went in with five contracts on selling well let me look it up here I can tell you [indiscernible] [00:06:29].
Allen: But like… So, Dale, but how long… how long does it take you to do the trading in time wise?
Dale: Well, I don’t I try not to stay in a trade over 20 days if I can.
Allen: Okay. No, but I’m talking like in a minute. Does it take you two hours a day? Four hours a day?
Dale: Oh. No. My gosh no. Uh, you know I’ll get up, I’m an early riser, I get up at 5:30/6:00 o’clock, I have my coffee, then when the market opens I’ve already got my screen up. My sink or swim platform up, maybe read up on fundamentals, things of that nature then, uh, then I start watching the market and if it looks pretty non volatile I may go into town, spend some time there, I may go over to my old business office and spend some time there and then that afternoon I might check it and see if I need to make an adjustment or get out.
Allen: Okay, so not really that much time.
Dale: [indiscernible] [00:07:41].
Dale: I’d say if I spent a total of an hour a day that-that would be, uh, probably extravagant.
Allen: Okay. Alright. And I do have a personal question for you because I know that we get a lot of folks who are retired or looking to retire soon and I often get this comment from a lot of people that, you know, “Hey Allen I’m in my 60’s” or “Allen, I’m, you know, I’m close to 70 and I just don’t have, I don’t know if I’m going to be able to learn something new. It’s going to be complicated, I’ve never done this type of trading before.” What-what would you say to that.
Dale: Well, you just almost to the verbatim said some things that some of my friends and associates that I know ask me. They said how are you doing retiring what you are doing with yourself. And I get around to tell them that, you know, that I met you on the internet a long time ago back in ’11 and that I’m selling options and that intrigues them and then I get to tell in them about it, then you can see some of them get impressed about it and some of them get very skeptical and you said it well, I don’t know if I can learn it and I just tell them, frankly, what is there to learn, really? I said, hell, you can spend a few hundred bucks and I can put you on to a young man that if you follow his advice and follow his webinars and you can follow hiss trades along with it, you know, if you want to go with ETF’s or Indexes or whatever, but I said I’ll just… I’ve made it my goal to learn the commodities market. I love it and that’s why I’ve told you in the past in past conversations that I feel like I’ve met my that I’ve found my niche. I’m 78 years old, I don’t have to make a lot of money, but it sure is nice to have a 25, 30m $45,000 or more coming in.
Dale: And for people… and for people that get bored during the day I think it would be, you know, there’s times that I come here and look and if it’s snowing outside or bad weather outside, this is a contradiction maybe, but if I got my screen up I’ll come in and check it once every hour. Just for something to do, it gives me something to do.
Allen: [laughing] Yep. Well, I mean if you’re making that much and the time you’re spending on it, you know, per hour you’re doing pretty well, so, you know…
Dale: I’ll put it this way, had I known that it was like this and that I could, find someone like you that could explain it in terms that I understood, without making it, uh, you know, sound like it was, you know like some people they bring the Greeks into it and all that. Well, I’ve studied the Greeks and-and rightfully so, you need to know something about the Greeks if you’re going to play options, but, I just… I think it’s the greatest thing that ever happened. I wish it happened to me 20 years ago.
Dale: I’d of probably retired had it of happened and I had the fortune of-of-of meeting you, the good fortune of meeting you 20 years ago I’d probably retire 10 years since.
Allen: [laughing] Well, I appreciate that. [laughing] Alight so, now since we’re specifically talking about the Blank Check and the oil trading, how long did it take you? I know you already you said you had been doing some gold options before, but long did it take you to get a good firm understanding of doing it the oil… doing it the way that its taught in the course.
Dale: Oh gosh, uh, for my part I think about the second webinar that you had Allen, I was pretty well convinced that you had a program and a system that you had developed for yourself that I could identify with. Now I’m not saying that I always go along, but every time I haven’t I’ve been clipped, too.
Dale: For a loss. So, I don’t… I don’t think that anyone if they follow the 15 rules, they don’t have to be rules they just nuts to do they will at least when they make a mistake, put it down for as what they did, how they did it, why they did it and it most the time I find out it’s greed with me. Um, I’ll look at a trade knowing in the back of my mind that it’s probably in all probability going to be a losing trade and I’ll be dog gawn if I don’t in the one you’ll pass 20 deltas, you know, that I think maybe two last year, but I had about 36 days left on the trade.
Dale: So, that gave me some time. Time is in your favor there, but if I’m over an 18/19 delta and it’s two weeks out, I may wait till it hits that magic 20, but I’m usually I’m usually out of there.
Dale: If I’ve only got about two weeks left.
Allen: Okay. Alright. What was specifically about the course was your favorite part about it? Do you remember?
Dale: Well, I liked your explanation for importance that crude oil is one of the few commodities that’s never going to go to zero. That got my attention and got me to thinking and I thought well, he’s is a very, stooped observer because it’s not. It can’t. No way. The other thing that got me is I really think that making options on oil especially. I tried them on soy beans. I tried them on some corn and I fortunately I made some money by selling, but my primary one is the crude oil.
Allen: Yeah there’s just something about crude that has a different dynamic, I think than other commodities because it’s, you know, everything else at least the ones that I’ve been with soy beans and, you know, corn and all the ag ones, they’re really dependent on the volume and the weather. You know, sometimes you get a bumper crop and, you know, all the sudden the price just hits the floor. Same thing like you have with, uh, natural gas, you know? They keep finding more and more natural gas…
Allen: And the price is just not rising. But it’s not as in demand as crude oil is and so it’s something that is, um, there’s a lot of players in the crude oil market and they kind of, you know, bring in some support to it, as well because it’s
Dale: [indiscernible] [00:16:21].
Allen: In so many different ways. Um, so, I mean, I’ve tried to see if we can replicate it in some other markets, but haven’t been able to do it yet and it’s just the way that we-we came up with the rules and the and the way that the crude oil works together it’s just been, it’s just been…
Dale: It kind of fits like a glove, doesn’t it?
Allen: Yeah. Pretty much. So what’d you think about the materials – the course materials and the support that was offered with the course?
Dale: I thought they were very well presented in a very basic congenial type way that, um, that you could read or attend one of your webinars and asked a few questions. Really, you-you’ve been very good about answering a lot of my questions on your webinars without me ever asking. I haven’t mind to ask, but very often you’ve covered during your webinar without me having to ask.
Allen: Okay. Cool. Alright, so, now I think you’ve already eluded to it, but how has the course changed things for you? You know, your outlook on the future, on your trading, your mindset, your skill level?
Dale: Oh, it’s given me a purpose to a-a… like I say, I’ve been an early riser and instead of twiddling my thumbs or going out to and walking for 10 miles and then coming back and sitting down in my lounge chair and maybe taking a siesta, it’s-it’s giving me something I check on each and every day that I’m in a trade. It’s giving me the opportunity to prove to myself at my age that you can if you’re willing to open your mind and learn something new. It’s giving me monetary… its rewarded me monetarily. It’s, uh-uh, as you know you’re a family man, it’s allowed me to do things with my grandchildren and my wife and my family that I probably would have been hesitant on doing and I probably couldn’t have afforded it, but, uh, it-it just gives us… It gives you that extra confidence.
Allen: Yep. And I know that you’ve been active in the Facebook group and you’ve been helping along, you know, all the other members in there as well with your experience, you know, posting up your trades and answering their questions and whatnot, so I appreciate that, as well. I think the next step is we’re going to get you to be one of our trainers. [laughing] We’re going to make you a coach.
Dale: Well I don’t know about that! [laughing].
Allen: [laughing] But yeah, I mean it’s something, you know, if you wanted to, right? If you had a friend or if you had a son or a daughter or grandson or granddaughter, cousin, or somebody that wanted to do it, you have the tools in your hands.
Allen: That says let’s do this together. You know? Let’s learn it together and you can get the same benefits that I’ve gotten. So, um…
Allen: That’s one of those things that-that, for me at least, I know that, you know, yeah, I’m putting away money for my kid’s college educations, right? We got three kids right now and I’m putting money away, but I’m sincerely hoping that when they get a little older and they can start understanding this stuff that I can teach it to them and so they can do it profitably, they can do it well. They’ll never have to settle for a job that they don’t enjoy. You know? Because…
Dale: And that…
Allen: Go ahead.
Dale: And that should impress anyone.
Allen: Yeah. I mean if the money aspect is taken care of then, you know, they can go ahead and go and study whatever you want in college and whatnot and then go do what your heart wants and then you can do this for the money so you don’t have to just work for a job or, you know, mind numbing work or anything else that, um…
Allen: People have to deal with. But, so, I’m very happy and I’m very gracious and honored that, you know, for everything that you’ve said so far. So if you had, you know, a friend or a relative that said “hey, you know, I’m thinking about doing this program. You know, you told me about it. I’m thinking about doing it, it sounds interesting” what would you say to them?
Dale: Well, I’d advise them to run and to not walk to the nearest computer and or calling you and enroll! And these are your option genius course or your blank check.
Allen: Cool. Alright. I appreciate that. Now, um, now when it comes to, you know, like futures and futures options, a lot of people have a tendency to stray away from them because they have gotten a rap as being very risky, you know, so, we have, you know, people… A lot of the general population know what our stock is and know how stocks go up and down, but few people know about options and so they think that options are really risky and then when you come to futures options, you know, it’s kind of like oh my god I know somebody who lost a lot of money in futures. I would never even consider that, you know? What did you… you’ve been doing it for a while, but even after the course, you know, how do you feel about the risk that is involved in trading futures options versus trading stocks or stock options?
Dale: Well, the-the-the reward to the risk profile for me would be that, that’s one of the reasons that I solidified on the futures options. I did quite well in your options genius courses, on some spreads, but I also have to watch the spreads more closely. Indexes and ETL’s and stocks can, it doesn’t take much by move to get you either having to make some adjustments or make the decision right quick to get in or out or to stay in or not. With crude oil, just since we’ve been talking here and in the last 15 or 20 minutes, for instance, I’ve just out of habit pulled up my screen, I’m looking and crude oil has advanced almost 45 cents since we’ve been talking.
Dale: Um, I was losing some money, probably I’m approaching the break-even point now on my puts. So, I would tell people that are hesitant about futures, particularly commodity futures, and hesitant about options, I would suggest that they take at least one course, and dive in and, just pay their-their enrollment fees for Options Genius and try that for a while – that’s what I did – and then I came along with Blank Check and I enrolled in it and that’s, like I said, I found that I… It just it just absorbed me more than the spreads and the ETT’s, indexes, and the-the, um-um, stocks.
Dale: I’m not saying I won’t go back and play a few of those, trade some of those, but right now, I’m from the old school that why argue with success?
Allen: [laughing] Okay. Right. [laughing] What works keep doing it, right? [laughing]
Allen: Okay. So today I know I’ve kept you for a while. Do you have anything else that you would want our listeners to know?
Dale: Well, I-I… If-if there’s anyone that-that hears this conversation between you and I would suggest that they at least get on the internet if they have a computer, laptop, whatever and, go to your site, optiongenius.com, read, I think you got a few examples in there following me even.
Dale: And, uh, then, uh, if they’re married people, talk with their wife, if their single, uh, and their needing to get financially stable, it doesn’t take a lot of money, that’s another thing. It doesn’t take a lot of money to do this. You can start with… Well, I started I think with, uh… I guess I’m more fortunate than some people. I started with $4,000. Um…
Allen: How much? $4,000?
Dale: And, you know, I-I-I never lost it.
Dale: And I just kept building on it. And I know that there’s some people that I’ve talked to, I’ve got a good friend by the name of George Green here that has played, futures, not options, but futures for years and he has gotten filthy rich. George is one of those guys that I like to point to that, uh, he’s just like a down home Charles on the market. He’s up one day and down the other…
Dale: I’ve seen him lose, uh, thousands and thousands of dollars, but, over the long run, uh, well I’ll put it this way – he pays his bills and he’s never…he’s never had a bill collector call him.
Allen: But, I want to back up on something if you don’t mind sharing. You said you started with four, but last year you made 17?
Allen: So, did you add more money to it or did you just keep building?
Dale: No, I just kept building.
Allen: Wow! So, what are you up to now?
Dale: Well, right now with the, uh, trade… See, last year was my first full year with Blank Check.
Dale: When I switched over from Option Genius to Blank Check
Dale: And I, I finished the year out I was looking through it today, I got to go through my accounts the latter part of this week and I was looking and I think it was $17,443 that I made. How much of that will go to taxes, I don’t know, but that was that was before commissions now.
Dale: And, then since the first of the year, I went to Phoenix on December the 27th to visit our daughter and grandkids, and I put a trade on before I left. While I was out there, I bought back the put five in and I’m in a trade now.
Allen: Wow. That’s amazing. I mean I don’t have a calculator on me so I can’t calculate on that return, but you know, to make 17,000 on a 4,000 investment that’s like, you know, no wonder no one believes you [laughing].
Allen: That’s like over 400%.
Dale: I probably… I probably started out playing. I’m just dumb enough to if, if one contract is good enough than four is even better and I wouldn’t advise everybody to start out, but I could have very well afford it, Allen and I’m not saying hopefully in a braggadocios matter, but I could have afforded to lost the 4,000.
Dale: Most people can’t.
Dale: But, I was fortunate and the Good Lord was shining on me.
Allen: Yep. No, but you’ve also been very diligent in it and you’ve followed, you know, you’ve followed the game plan and you are like you said you’ve stayed on top it’s not like something you did and you forgot about it. But kudos to you that’s amazing. I know you did well, I didn’t know you did that well [laughing].
Dale: You deserve a lot of the kudos yourself, because, I think back when you had a Blank Check trading seminar and it was a repeat and you noticed that I was online watching and think you tapped in and told me this is a repeat Dale, you don’t need to be in on it, I typed back and told you yes, I did because you never stop learning.
Allen: [laughing] Yeah.
Dale: You may miss something in one and, uh, it doesn’t hurt to refresh your mind on things.
Allen: Yes sir. Yes sir. No, you are an inspiration, my friend. Yep. Um, I hope that when I’m 78 you said?
Allen: Yeah, I hope when I’m 78 I’m half as alert as you are [laughing].
Dale: [laughing] Well, if my wife was here she’d tell me to tell you I’m not [indiscernible] [00:30:38]. [Allen laughing over him] [00:30:42]
Allen: [laughing] Alight, well I think I’ve kept you long enough. I’m going to let you get back to your family. I do appreciate you taking the time to talk to me today, it’s been very inspirational, very enlightening, and I’m sure that everybody listening has got a lot out of it so, I do thank you so much for that, Dale.
Dale: Well, that’s fine Allen. It’s been my pleasure and you tell all of your students, I wish them a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. We’re already into the New Year and I hope they’re all successful.
Allen: [laughing] I am into that brother. Alright, goodnight.
Dale: Thank you.
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